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Greyhawk Canon

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Endymion	Greyhawk Canon	Lead	[-]
Posts: 141 (10/09/08 02:47:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I'm not sure if anyone will respond to this, but I still want to seek information here first. Indulging more in nostalgia than usual, I'm hoping to revive a Greyhawk campaign I ran back in the '80's. However, so much has been written about WoG since then (and I didn't even have all the stuff written about it before then) that I'm not really sure what types of commercially-available materials I should look at and which I should ignore. I really want to recreate an old-school, "traditional", "original Gary's vision" campaign. I've looked at Grodog's site and found some great references there (although I wish he would write more of the articles he's been promising . . .). But what are people's thoughts on the kinds of sources to use? Which would you prioritize? Thanks. "As though to breathe were life . . . ." -- Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Thulcondar2		#1	[-]
Posts: 16 (10/09/08 07:37:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You'll want a huge dungeon-crawl, and I would highly recommend "Castle Zayg: Upper Works" recently published by Troll Lord Games, but with the caveat that you might end up having to do a lot of design work yourself to expand the dungeon, as it is currently unclear as to whether, when, or for what game system the next module in the series will be released. I would definitely include Rob's work offered for sale here, as well; I'll definitely be placing the Living Room and Bottle City somewhere in my Castle Greyhawk when the time comes. I know some people will end up including some of Rob's Maure Castle levels to make up some of the missing levels, and that seems workable, with a little effort. You can also have fun putting in gates to Dungeonland/Beyond the Magic Mirror and the Isle of the Ape. Adventures outside the dungeons of Greyhawk would be called for as well. You will obviously want to concentrate on the earlier material, given what you say. The original Greyhawk boxed set, definitely. Village of Hommlet/Temple of Elemental Evil. The Giants/Drow series. Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. White Plume Mountain. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Not necessarily in that order... Personally, I would tend to ignore the books that TSR/WotC published on various kingdoms (Iuz, Marklands, Scarlet Brotherhood) and the Living Greyhawk stuff and concentrate on the earlier modules. But then again I've been told that I'm an atavistic jerk, so take it as you will. :-) Depending on how creative you want to get, you could cobble together a very workable City of Greyhawk with bits and pieces from the TSR boxed set, material from Gary's books (especially City of Hawks and Night Arrant), and the new cty of Yggsburgh material from TLG. The boxed set maps are atrocious, but feel free to use the hand-drawn maps I've got up on my blog (link at the end of this post, and you might find some more useful information there as well). As a question of campaign philosophy, you will need to decide on the timeframe of your campaign. This will be important for the simple reasont hat it will determine whether or not your PCs are competing with the likes of Robilar and Erac's Cousin, or if they are hitting the ground with those legendary personages already having come before. You could, of course, start off in CY 560 and just not have Melf et al involved at all, but that seems to lose some of the fun, to my mind. My own players really loved their encounters with Melf and crew... You should also bear in mind that "original Gary's vision" is a somewhat nebulous concept, as his campaign changed in significant ways over the years (not that I ever had the pleasure of playing in it, alas...). It started out as a fantastic version of North America, with Greyhawk equalling Chicago. That turned into something more-or-less approximating the published Flanaess. Castle Greyhawk itself morphed from a dozen or so levels to 30 to 6 and now to whatever the plan for Castle Zagyg ends up being. Suffice to say it seems to me that there's a lot of wiggle-room for you as DM, even if you want to remain true to the spirit of Gary's Greyhawk. Joe http://greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com
Endymion		#2	[-]
Posts: 142 (10/09/08 17:32:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks for the response, Thulcondar. That helps. I also looked at the recent posts on your blog: great stuff. I especially liked the idea for the traffic cones and construction site in Castle Greyhawk. Some of the things you were writing got me to thinking, too. I actually have many of the items you list as essential Greyhawk canon, but you had some good blog stuff on the spirit of old Greyhawk that's even more important -- it was (and should remain) open ended. The 1980 Gazeteers gives you a paragraph on the Great Kingdom and now it's up to you to fill it out when needed. That's a theme some old timers from the OC in LG have mentioned on the PPP boards. Back then (they say), you never knew what the monsters were -- they weren't detailed in the MM because there was no MM. It was about exploring new territory, encountering new foes, not knowing what was just beyond the edge of the map (for player and DM alike, it seems). Grodog (on his site) also talks about not liking the newer detailing of (e.g.) the Scarlet Bortherhood -- they should remain in the shadows. The unknown should be all around the players. That's very Lovecraftian: revealing one mystery only to show a deeper more scary thing on the horizon (like Mountains of Madness) So, for me, (strangely) maybe B2 and the Official D&D Coloring Book (my entry into D&D when I was about eight) are some of the best guides to Greyhawk -- the game should start with a detailed area and then expand as the players' needs expand; at the same time the point is not background for its own sake or some kind of perfectly detailed subcreated world, but to get out there and have fun killing things. Oh, and I should probably throw the MMs out the window and never take the campaign too seriously (Fonkyn Hoddypeak -- who are they kidding?) I guess maybe reading recollections of the old guard will help create an echo of old style gaming, too: "what the hell IS THAT? RUN!" Anyway, thanks again. And if you or anyone else have any further thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Cheers. "As though to breathe were life . . . ." -- Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Gronan of Simmerya		#3	[-]
Posts: 1218 (10/12/08 07:22:58) Lord of the Barbarian Lands Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The most "authentic" Greyhawk experience would be to find a corner of the Great Kingdom and build your own city and dungeon. Greyhawk was Gary's world. His attitude was always "Don't copy mine, do your own." That's why OD&D brown-box included virtually nothing about Greyhawk. Gronan "It used to be said that an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards for an infinite amount of time would eventually produce all the works of Shakespeare. Thanks to the Internet, we now know that this is not true."
Endymion		#4	[-]
Posts: 143 (10/16/08 04:29:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Gronan -- yes, I have to agree with you. The most authentic Greyhawk experience probably wouldn't even happen in Greyhawk: the idea is to grow your own world from a central seed and then modify/slot things in as you wish. I don't want to recapture even my own past experiences, let alone try to replicate someone else's. For some reason, though, I keep getting pulled back to Greyhawk. It's like I have some old friends that need visiting. I'm actually more interested in the Shield Lands than the Great Kingdom: I think they might be an interesting analogue for Eastern Europe in the 1250-1400 period, under the Teutonic Knights. The Order of Holy Shielding seems to be setting up some kind of Monastic State similar to what the Teutonics did in Poland and parts of what are now Germany. We'll see how it goes: maybe I'll just revert to my old "Byzantium" world. But I don't want the background and history to swallow the campaign. I'm more of a killing and looting kind of DM than a roleplayer. "As though to breathe were life . . . ." -- Tennyson, "Ulysses"
JediOre		#5	[-]
Posts: 236 (10/16/08 10:39:13) Earl of the Realm Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Endymion wrote: But I don't want the background and history to swallow the campaign. I'm more of a killing and looting kind of DM than a roleplayer. Ah, a DM after my own heart! As far as background in my games, since I really don't create adventures but run purchased modules I let the campaign be defined by the past modules gamed through.
Endymion		#6	[-]
Posts: 144 (10/17/08 10:33:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I once played in the Greyhawk campaign of a guy who felt he had to detail every adventure area, place every magic item, and roll up every conceivable opponent before we ever started adventuring there. I was always more interested in leaving some stuff to the imagination and spending my time focusing on where I knew the players were going to be. Speaking of roleplaying, I recently read a pretty interesting thread over on the Acaeum on that topic. Somewhat predictably, it degenerated into a shouting match. I don't mind what other people like to do in their campaigns (I'm certainly not going to tell anyone how to play), but I could never roleplay more than making the occasional funny voice for an NPC. Did you ever try to roleplay a love interest for one of your buddies? Sorry, pal, but I'm just NOT going to go there. [how would that work in larping . . .?] I had this one player who constantly wanted to "get with" any even marginally attractive female NPC I had them interact with. I think it was because he couldn't get a girlfriend in the real world [who'd a thunk that, a D&D player having trouble with the ladies?] I pretty soon started excluding female NPCs. But even more innocuous (i.e. less homoerotic) types of roleplay always kind of embarrassed me. I just finished reading Dragons of Autumn Twilight again to my daughters -- remember that bit at the back about how the roleplaying influenced the writing of the book? Some guy evidently showed up in robes to play Raistlin one night and helped craft the book character -- that's very cool and was probably brilliantly done, but I would have been kind of weirded out by that. Don't know why exactly. That said, I wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall watching a group who were more active roleplayers. I imagine I'd learn something . . . . "As though to breathe were life . . . ." -- Tennyson, "Ulysses"
Othlinden		#7	[-]
Posts: 621 (10/21/08 07:45:20) Lord of the Star Strands Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Greyhawk is a Mythical Beast, of which only glimpses may be obtained and about which songs may now be sung. But like any great day, its sun has set and it gains a great deal of its ephemeral strength from this fact. You may now chase its ephemera, but you will never grasp its fleeting tail. However, there are realms arisen in plenty where one might drink of its wealth. I would suggest that finding a mythical Greyhawk coin is more powerful now than any adventure you could attempt to recreate. Perhaps with that coin you might buy your way back to the mythical Greyhawk for a night, perhaps two. Perhaps you will find more coins? But again, recognize, you may only chase it into the night. What you will find is an entirely new and different adventure, your own tale, and rightly so, as it was made that way. As Gronan said.

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